Maxance Vincent
Marvel’s Echo broke new ground by being the first MCU title to be headlined by a deaf and Native American actor in Alaqua Cox’s Maya Lopez. Its production was also careful in consulting members of the Choctaw Nation, on not only its main story, which was told through the perspective of Indigenous filmmakers Sydney Freeland and Catriona McKenzie, but also through its representation of the culture through the costumes.
Costume designer Stacy Caballero, whose work was nominated for an Outstanding Fantasy/Sci-Fi Costumes Emmy, spoke with Awards Radar on Echo‘s incredible costumes. We not only discussed her Emmy nomination, but also the process in designing Maya’s emotional journey, grounding the costumes in reality, which is a shift for most Marvel productions, and some of the biggest challenges of the show, among others.
Read the full conversation below:
Congrats on the very well-deserved Emmy nomination for your work in the show! What was your initial reaction when you found out you were nominated?
Yeah, it was really exciting. The show was made a bit ago, and there were so many projects in between that. It’s cool to go back to it and discover it again, watching the episodes to refresh myself and then going back through sketches, notes, and concepts. It’s been really fun to go back. I think I have a greater appreciation for it now, after some time has passed, because, as a costume designer, you have a critical eye, and you’re picking out all the things that could have been a little bit better, but it’s the story I think is so important here.
I was excited to receive this nomination. Disney PR had told me they put up a couple of episodes for consideration, so I knew that was happening. But it still felt like a shocking surprise [laughs]. When I saw the list, one of my good friends, Emma Potter, also got nominated in another category. When I saw her name first, I was super excited, and then I saw my name. We’re planning our Emmy dresses together, so it’s really fun.
Did you also ever expect the reception of Echo to be this positive and to have it loved by not just Marvel fans but non-Marvel fans who tuned in to watch the show and loved it?
I consider myself a storyteller, so it was such a great story. It wasn’t just a Marvel story or a superhero story, or even a family story of love, loss, and relationships. It was a love letter to the Choctaw Nation. Diving into the history and really learning about the Choctaw Nation was so inspiring to me. Throughout the costume work, I was trying to be thoughtful, not just through Maya’s costume but through every character.
Were you familiar with the character Maya Lopez and her story in the comics before you joined the series?
Absolutely. I’ve been in the Marvel world for a little bit. I did Thor: Ragnarok with Mayes C. Rubeo and Black Panther: Wakanda Forever with Ruth E. Carter. We won an Oscar for that one. I was pretty familiar with the Marvel process. Just when I thought I was going to take a little break, Judianna Makovsky reached out to me to help her for a little bit with Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 3. I jumped in to help her for a few weeks, and that’s when I got the interview for Echo.
So you are nominated for episode two of the series, Lowak, directed by Sydney Freeland. Can you talk about your collaboration with her, not only in this episode but throughout the series as well?
Lowak was a fantastic episode. I actually interviewed with Sydney, and she had such a strong voice in the very beginning. She was so passionate about the project, and I could clearly see that. They sent me the first script, so I did character boards and concepts based on that first script, and that’s what I talked through through my interviews. We connected to how we were storytellers and were in sync right from the start. Marvel has such intellectual property that is paramount and protected, so they have a visual development department that helps them ensure that the characters are respected, as far as costume designers go. So, we had these visual development meetings. The Marvel producers and directors are there, and all the creative heads of departments and Marvel’s team are a fantastic group of artists. In these weekly meetings, you show what you do, which has happened on any Marvel project. It’s what happened on Thor: Ragnarok, but we did those meetings in person on the Disney lot. But when COVID hit, we did it all on Zoom. We weren’t able to meet in person. So I would have to present weekly at the visual development meetings, work in progress, character work sketches, and historical beats we wanted to hit. The Marvel producers knew what was happening, but before that, Syd and I would meet and keep developing these characters together. I loved working with her and thought we definitely had an understanding of the story we wanted to tell.
Were there any massive challenges in designing the show’s overall costumes?
On everything, you have some challenges. This was based on a Choctaw family, and the Choctaw Nation was such a beautiful part of it. We were in Oklahoma for three days together, and we were at the Choctaw Cultural Center. Researching something is important, and getting things authentically correct is essential. It was such an experience to meet another community who helped tell the story. The historians were so important to us, and they freely opened up. Everything that you saw in the series, whether it was on a costume, production design, or anywhere, was approved by the Choctaw Cultural Center,
The opening scene of the second episode takes place in 1200 AD, when Lowak participates in a stickball game. Can you discuss designing costumes for that particular scene?
For the stickball game, the team had beautiful things to show at the visual development meetings that were historically accurate. Using photos I took at the museum, researching online, and going to the library, not only making sure we got it correct because we’re telling a story, even though there’s a superhuman element to it, we’re still telling the story of a Choctaw family and ancestors within this family. We want to be respectful of all the facts and do it well. Using all-natural materials was important for that scene to make it right.
Is there a process for designing superhero costumes that is more grounded in reality than typical Marvel productions? Yes, you’ve got a bit of supernatural elements in the show, but it’s a show that’s fairly grounded. It’s more street-level than more Marvel productions. You also have Daredevil [Charlie Cox] in the first episode. Is there a specific type of process that goes into that well?
Of course, Daredevil is such a popular character in the MCU. The visual development designed that one. There were some slight changes at the very beginning. He was going to be in the show a couple of times, but we ended up cutting it back to one. We kept tweaking a version from another episode because the MCU has a big cohesive storyline. It was great that he appeared, and we tweaked his classic costume slightly for Charlie.
Can you talk about the process of bringing Maya’s Choctaw-inspired superhero costume to life, which we see in the final episode of the series?
There’s a connection to the way Maya’s story ended in Hawkeye. A friend of mine, Michael Crow, had designed those costumes, so I studied what he had done with those characters coming into their own and tried to figure out how it would connect them. Maya had just shot Kingpin [Vincent D’Onofrio] at the end of Hawkeye, and then she’s on the run in Echo. As a storyteller, you want to figure out what they are thinking and how to make this believable to the audience in Echo. I did a lot of work there. I studied everything he had done, everything that was on screen. I even saw the costumes in person to see what was done.
For Echo, I wanted it to have some power and realism, and others agreed it needed that. At the beginning of the show, she’s on the run and is wearing thrift store clothes. She’s very clever and cunning. She’s a strategist. So she knows where she can get stuff and where to pick it up. She has cash on the ready. She’s very thoughtful. There’s a beautiful scene in episode five where Chula [Tantoo Cardinal] is trying to convince her not to run. She needs to stand and fight for the people. She’s telling her she’s come from a long line of warriors, starting with Chafa herself. They were protectors, and they fought for their families.
Now, this is Maya’s turn. No more running, and she’s got the strategy from Lowak, the cuttingness from Tuklo, the ferocity from Chafa, and the love from Taloa. All those elements were essential for me to put in the costumes along the way, as well as the ancestral costumes. That was at the forefront of my brain. I was telling this family story about these women warriors. Starting off, she’s resourceful, so she’s picking things up from thrifting, so that’s what she’s wearing. It’s all very well thought out and was pitched to the visual development meetings. It was signed off, and everybody understood exactly what was happening in the story and my thought process regarding the costumes.
I started her in these grayish-worn thrifted jeans, a tank top, or a t-shirt. This plaid shirt was something she would have thrifted to be comfortable. It doesn’t say very much. It’s very nondescript, but she picks up the jacket on which she puts her echo insignia. She’s there trying to figure out her strategy and is fighting. And we pick up on that. We pick up on that scene of her stopping at the gas station and trying to patch herself up as best as possible. The coloration was important to me. That had a throughline through all of her costumes and the choices to use copper zippers, hardware, the jacket, and the copper logo. That was also a design choice because we pulled her into a more Indigenous world. Compared to New York, I had a beautiful color palette for what Oklahoma looked like. There was a very dark coloration, many grays and mid-tone colors. As we moved to little Oklahoma, so many more colors were introduced. It was a stunning palette of mid-tone, darkish blues, oranges, yellows, and purples, which tried to embody that Choctaw spirit.
Was there a desire to adapt Kingpin’s look close to the comics because, in the fourth episode, his white suit is extremely iconic and is the perfect translation from comic to screen?
Yes, I loved getting to do the designs for Kingpin. Vincent plays an amazing character, and it was really fun having just Zoom conversations with him because he was such a character. I felt that I was in a movie myself because he would like to tell all these remarkable stories. He was such a great guy, and he’s a pro. So he had very specific things he wanted to tell me about that were most important to him. I had sketches for him that I showed him, and we talked about them. This guy has been in the comics for over 50 years, right? I had so much respect for his character and the journey he has taken.
Wilson has international connections. He knows good quality and appreciates everything of quality and history. He’s an educated man with access to any technology at his fingertips. He has custom-made suits with a more prominent silhouette. That was also something we wanted to bring back from the comics. I had this beautiful muscle suit sculpted under it to make it as light as possible so that Vincent could move properly. I worked hard to develop that, but he had all that experience from previous projects.
I knew what to do to create this because I also did Man of Steel with Michael Wilkinson. I worked together with him on Sucker Punch, Man of Steel, and The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn. I knew a lot about muscles and superhero suits. I also connected with Michael Crow, who told me about their problems with Hawkeye with the muscle suit, which could have looked better. It was very important for me to take that information and use it on this one to make Vincent feel his best as a character and to have it look good. It looked so good when he was in that white suit beating up that ice cream guy. That’s the comic book that I wanted to show on the screen, and it really looked like that. That was a proud moment because it looked so good and believable. When we were doing Echo, Vincent was shooting a project in Ireland, so I had to send one of my team members to Dublin to fit him because we needed to have his stuff ready when he arrived. There was no time to play. He got there just a few days before his shooting. The way I custom-made everything, even his shoes. It all had to be very thoughtful, and he couldn’t come to us because he had such a tight schedule, being the amazing actor he is.
Is there a particular costume or design that you worked on this show that you’re the proudest of?
I do love the Kingpin, and I love being true to to the comic book. I went back and studied everything about Kingpin and just, and that’s what I was trying to bring back. He had those graphic patterns on his vest and was a very savvy businessman. I love what I did with him and everybody I worked with on that. But what I’m most proud of is Maya’s fight transition. It was right after she received her new prosthetic from her grandpa, Skully [Graham Greene]. That’s when she gets into fight mode. It was what Maya thought that her fight costume would be like: she was ready for battle.
She has this burgundy leather harness, which is something I kept from the comic books and I love so much. It started with that one, and I want to say that was in episode four when she saw that her grandmother had made this vest. The visual development team designed an amazing suit of what Maya thought of what she was going into the final battle with, but we needed the Choctaw element, and all the influences are in her ancestors. When I was designing that costume, I thought about all the ancestors. In that final battle costume, there are elements of all the ancestors in that costume. We see her grandmother working on the costume, and there’s a beautiful still of that PR had with Tantoo Cardinal, who’s amazing, working on the ceremonial vest. The next time we see her, she’s at the powwow wearing her ceremonial vest with the fight costume underneath. She then goes to the warehouse, and that’s when she encounters Kingpin. She takes off her vest, and then the power of her ancestors helps her fight him off.
All episodes of Echo are now available to stream on Disney+.
[This interview was edited for length and clarity]
Comments
Loading…