Ayla Ruby
Abbott Elementary, the mockumentary about life in a Philadelphia public school, recently ended its third season with some big developments for our favorite characters. We’re anxiously waiting for the fourth season, but in the meanwhile, we had the chance to sit down and talk with Janelle James about her role on the Quinta Brunson show.
Janelle James plays Ava Coleman on Abbott Elementary, the school’s principal whose high-energy antics require an equal if not more energy from James to bring to life. As James puts it in our Zoom interview, season 3 was about Janine’s growth and Ava’s grudging admiration of where she is in her career and as a person. James describes Ava as frequently the smartest person in the room and someone who genuinely cares about the students and employees in her school, even if everyone doesn’t necessarily believe or see that right away. She’s a city debutante, as James describes her, and gets her just desserts in some ways this season. She also shared the surprising but totally sensible reason why she thinks Ava is against a relationship that finally happened in the season’s finale. It was a great chat and worth checking out if you’re an Abbott fan. Read the full interview ahead, or listen to the audio above.
Ayla Ruby: Can you talk a little bit about what’s going on for Ava this season? We pick up post-strike and a lot [has happened.] She’s very serious at the start of the season.
Janelle James: Yes. This season I think is more of Janine’s season. Ava, of course, had her moments and she’s driving the bus, but I feel like this season was more about Janine’s growth and Ava grudgingly admiring it. So it was with great pleasure and honor to open, like you said, open the season. You find out that Ava has been going to Harvard. She’s taking some book learning seriously. She’s taking her job a little bit more seriously. And then we find out the teachers don’t like when she does that, so she gets to go back to fun Ava.
But I feel like, yeah, this season was more about Ava continuing her book learning and also just observing Janine come into her own, which is fine because in an ensemble, we all get our moments to peel back the layers of our character, and I’ve enjoyed watching Janine get a little cooler.
Ayla Ruby: There are a lot of moments too, though, for Ava with other characters that were really fun to see. And I’m thinking of Barbara here with the choir and all of that. I just thought that was really, really fun.
Janelle James: I always say Ava is frequently the smartest person in the room, contrary to what a lot of people may have thought coming into the first season, and if they had been paying attention. Ava is there to drop wisdom that she knows she had and to serve looks. And so that was great. I did like interacting with Barbara. You just basically see that she is like every other popular girl. She can make fun of you, but no one else can. You know what I mean? That kind of thing. I like that it makes it clear that she rides for her employees, basically.
Janelle James: No, she has their back. And I think that’s good about the ensemble period. We all have each other’s backs when things come up, regardless of what’s going on interpersonally, as far as Ava, bullying everybody.
Ayla Ruby: How do you get in the mindset for Ava as an actress, as a comedian? How do you approach a character like Ava, that we love… I love her.
Janelle James: It all starts with two shots of espresso. No, yeah. In my mind, Ava is a… I’m doing city debutante. That’s what I’m thinking of when I’m… you know. She is giving you city, but she’s also giving you almost like pageant queen. She’s very refined. Even if she’s saying horrible things, she is very refined in it. And I’m also thinking about the type of person who likes to be on camera.
So Ava has called in this documentary crew to document the school, but she really means her. And so, I’m always aware that this is a person who is always on, and that’s why I said it starts with the espresso, because the energy that that takes to be performing on a show where your character is performing is a lot, basically. So yeah.
Ayla Ruby: You’ve talked about the ensemble a little bit, how this was very much Janine’s season, and I’d love… But again, some very cool things happened for Ava. There was the stuff with Barbara, but also there was Ava Fest and Questlove. And I’d love to know about your reactions when you read the scripts, your reactions filming. And if you could talk about that process or anything like that.
Janelle James: For Ava Fest? I mean, I thought that was cool. Yeah, that was cute. Again, it shows that Ava is larger than life in this world than people may know. She does have a backstory. She’s always been cool. I identify with that. This season has taught me that I am a lot like Ava in that I have… Not only a lot like Ava, a lot like Mr. Johnson in that I’ve lived many lives. I’ve come across a lot of people. I’ve had many jobs. And so some of the stories I’ll say people won’t believe, but you can always show and prove. And that’s what happened with Ava Fest. She’s like, “Yeah, I did these things.” No one believed her. And then it ended up being true. And you just can’t… No one can believe because she seems incompetent, but she’s been around. So I love that. Ava’s a hustler. That’s what I identify with.
Ayla Ruby: You mentioned that like Mr. Johnson, she’s lived many lives. She’s got this backstory, but she’s still a super mystery besides what we’ve… Like who she is, really.
Janelle James: That’s what makes people cool, Ayla.
Ayla Ruby: Do you have something in your head as you… And you don’t have to share it, but is there a story in your head of Ava?
Janelle James: Of her backstory?
Ayla Ruby: Yeah.
Janelle James: I feel like she’s somebody that’s always been cool, always been the center of attention. That’s what’s been presented so far. I know in the first season we saw she had a heart and she takes care of her grandmother, so she definitely has some sort of home life. But I think she’s that person when she’s 96, she has 50 million stories about all the people she’s interacted with, all the parties she’s gone to, all the clothes that she’s worn, all the experiences that she’s had, all the husbands she’s married. She’s that person. And I love that. That’s who I wanted to be when I was young and now I get to play it, because I didn’t go that way. I don’t have the energy to be an Ava.
Ayla Ruby: That’s what the espresso is for.
Janelle James: Yeah. I don’t have an energy to be a real-life Ava, but I can play one on TV.
Ayla Ruby: Did you have a favorite moment this season or a favorite thing to do?
Janelle James: I really loved doing the panel with Tyler and Tatyana Ali. That was a new flavor for Ava to have somebody talking to her like that. As she needs. Ava been getting her just desserts this season. I don’t know if people been noticing. Janine has been coming for her. Even Jacob has said little smart-ass shit to Ava, putting her in a check. And she needs to. She can’t be just running wild all the time. So I liked that.
And just to be acting opposite Tatyana, who I’ve been watching since I was a kid, since I was a teenager, it was so funny. And I loved doing scenes with Tyler and improvising and it was just so silly. I love our silly episodes. I love the book club episode. That was flave Ava. She reads. People know. She’s not dumb. But she’s still sort of a nutcase in that she wants to lead at all times, in the book club and the apocalypse. So that was funny.
Ayla Ruby: She would be totally prepared.
Janelle James: Yeah. And I love the physical bits that I do for the show, for the relay race. Even when the book club, when I snatched the water and had to run across the room, and making Mr. Morton bend his knee to eat my chicken. All of those things is what I enjoy about this character. She is wild.
Ayla Ruby: You mentioned that you realized that there are some similarities. Has there been anything that you’ve learned or embraced besides that? From Ava. Has there been any lessons from Ava?
Janelle James: Anything that I’ve learned from Ava?
Ayla Ruby: Yeah.
Janelle James: Not necessarily. Because again, I feel like we live life similarly. So sometimes, most times, she’s saying something and I’m like, yeah, that’s what I would say. And I don’t like to be like, “Oh, I’m just like my character,” which I’m not, of course, because I don’t want to take away from all the work that I’m doing, but her life philosophy is very close to mine. And like I said, in the way that she lives life, I would feel that the only… or one of the biggest non… Is it non-similarity? Dissimilarity? One of those words.
Ayla Ruby: There you go.
Janelle James: I would think the biggest one is her desire for fame and being on camera. I don’t have that at all, even though that’s weird to say as I’m on a TV show. I’m a private person and I don’t chase, but she is chasing her moment. And so that is something I have to tap into when I’m doing this character. Somebody to be seen, somebody that wants to be famous, somebody that wants to be the center of attention. So yeah, that allows me to embody that type of person.
Janelle James: So maybe that’s what I have learned from Ava, a little bit more confidence in that way. I’m here to be seen. Yeah. Yeah.
Ayla Ruby: Is there anyone that you kind of channel in having to bring that and do the work to bring Ava to life? Or that you… Something-
Janelle James: No, I’m not really. I’m trying to make this character something of my own, and I feel like I’ve been succeeding and that I see people say that. This is a character that’s going to live in the lexicon. It used to be like, “Oh, she’s like Michael Scott.” I think people have gone away from that. Ava is her own thing. And that’s amazing, to create a character that’s iconic, as the kids say.
Ayla Ruby: I mean, it’s true.
Janelle James: Yeah. So, no, I’m super proud of that. I feel like no, it’s not often you can feel like, oh, nobody could play this character like I could. I made this person, and if God forbid something was to happen to Ava or she wasn’t on the show, they wouldn’t recast me. They’d have to bring in somebody else. Nobody else could play it like me. And that’s my goal. That’s my goal.
Ayla Ruby: It’s true. You bring so much to her and I can’t imagine anything else.
Janelle James: Thank you so much.
Ayla Ruby: Do you think anything’s misunderstood about Ava or anything…
Janelle James: Lots of things.
Ayla Ruby: I want to hear them.
Janelle James: People… And I think it’s been better as the show goes on, as people rewatch and pay more attention to maybe previous episode. I see people who have gone back and watched the first season like, oh, wait a minute. Ava does spend time with the kids. Ava does have a rapport with them. Ava does do things for the kids. Ava does do things for the school. It might not be in the way that everybody wants her to do it, but she gets shit done. Ava does have words of wisdom. Ava is street smart and book smart in a lot of ways. Ava is frequently the smartest person in the room. Ava watches everything. That means she’s not only concerned with herself, she knows what’s going on in her place of employment. And then as the show goes on, she’s even more dedicated to doing the job better. Of course, it still has to benefit her first, but if some kids get some books along the way, that’s great too.
Ayla Ruby: It’s where their goals align.
Janelle James: Yes, exactly.
Ayla Ruby: That’s okay. I’m from Philly. I went to Philly public schools, so I love Ava for that reason. And is there anything about Philly that you’ve learned that’s kind of surprised you or been really interesting in the course of doing Ava and Abbott?
Janelle James: I feel like what is surprising is that Philly is known as like a city, but it does really have a small town vibe. I didn’t know that. Philly’s neighborhoods are very distinct, and the people from there are very distinct. I think Philly people getting just looped in with the whole East Coast, you know, “Oh, they’re just East Coast,” but they’re a thing unto themselves. So I think, yeah, that’s what I’ve learned most. And that people who are from there are very proud of it. They’re their own-
Ayla Ruby: True.
Janelle James: Philly’s its own thing. That’s what I’ve learned.
Ayla Ruby: We just had the season finale. I think it just aired yesterday.
Ayla Ruby: Okay, so Gregory and Janine have this moment at the end of the… Well not at the end of the finale, but in the last episode. And Janine… Or not Janine. Ava obviously is against workplace relationships. Do you think we’ll see anything more about that as time goes on? Or are you-
Janelle James: I didn’t watch the finale yet, but I remember I’m making a face when I see them connecting. I’m guessing that that’s the case. She’s not happy about it. She sees something there. And I haven’t watched it yet because I like to see people’s reaction to the show before I watch it, and been seeing some people calling Ava hater. And I don’t agree with that. I think, Ava… First of all, people are like, “Oh, how could she have flirted with Gregory? And now she’s upset,” as if the reason she’s upset is that she actually wanted Gregory.
And again, if people pay attention to the show, Gregory is a poor teacher. Ava dates a basketball player. I don’t think she actually was that into Gregory. It was more of a hazing. Janine and Gregory were the new additions to the school in the first season, and she’s been hazing them basically for her own amusement. She wasn’t truly into him as if she wanted to date him. And then when she lost interest in that, she just stopped. So I don’t think she’s hating, per se, on their relationship. She knows that they’re two nerds and they don’t know how to do sneaky shit. And that’s going to go… That’s my theory and that’s how I’m going to play it.
Because if you have a workplace relationship, which we’re not supposed to have, you got to do it in such a way that it doesn’t blow back on everybody else and affect your job and everyone else. That’s what Mr. Morton was talking about. And Ava knows these two fucking… Oop, I didn’t mean to curse. These two sweetheart eyes dorks aren’t going to be able to maintain that secrecy, and now she’s going to have to clean it up and it’s going to affect what she’s trying to do. And that’s what she’s really upset about. She’s not a hater. She’s just like, “Oh, now I’m going to have to deal with this,” basically.
Ayla Ruby: Oh, that makes a lot of sense.
Janelle James: That makes more sense for her character than she’s hating because Gregory, a second year teacher, is not into her.
Ayla Ruby: It doesn’t fit who she is as a character when you think about it.
Janelle James: Exactly. Exactly.
Ayla Ruby: I love it. Okay, we’re just about at time. Is there anything you want people to know about Abbott or about what you’re working on next?
Janelle James: About Abbott… Yeah, I want people to continue to watch it. That’s about it. I don’t know anything more than anyone else knows. I find out about the episodes just like everybody else, so I don’t have any tidbits about upcoming seasons. But I will say for myself, a lot of people don’t know that I’m a stand-up comedian. I’ve been getting back into that and I’ll be on the road and putting out a new special. I’m excited for people, if they don’t know, to discover that I’m funny in all kind of different ways.
Ayla Ruby: Oh, awesome. Well thank you. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk. And again, thank you so much.
Janelle James: Thank you. Have a great day.
This interview has been lightly edited for clarity.
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