Interview: Tim Van Patten on Directing ‘Franklin’

Tim Van Patten is an Emmy-winning director. He has a legendary career, spanning work on iconic shows like Boardwalk Empire and The Sopranos to The Pacific and Sex and the City. His most recent endeavor, Franklin, takes him back in time to the early days of America’s founding. The legend sat down with us over Zoom to talk about the series, the historical figure, and a career first for him, directing all eight series episodes.

In our interview, Van Patten shared what interested him about the Founding Father. He was full of praise for actor Michael Douglas, especially when it came to his producing eye. Van Patten talked about film and book references for the miniseries, including Stanley Kubrick’s Barry Lyndon, and shared what it was like to film in Versailles and a show where lots of the dialogue was in French. Read ahead for the full conversation, or listen to the audio above.

Ayla Ruby: Again, I’m super excited to meet you and I’m really excited to talk about the miniseries.

Tim Van Patten: Great, thank you.

Ayla Ruby: I would love to talk about what attracted you to this story, why you’re interested in Benjamin Franklin.

Tim Van Patten: The average schoolboy really doesn’t know anything, I mean, knows the minimal amount about Franklin. And there’s so much to know about the man outside of electricity and his discovery of it. He was a very complex character, and this particular slice of history, this particular moment in his life and in our culture, in our history, was fascinating to me, that at 70 years old, he went on the secret mission to solicit money men in arms from an absolute monarchy, to throw over another monarch.

I just thought, wow, I’d like to take an audience there and I’d like to do that immersion into that world. And that’s why I chose it.

Ayla Ruby: How did you get, I guess, immersed into the world, besides the book that it’s based off of? How did you enter the world of Franklin?

Tim Van Patten: Outside of Stacy Schiff’s wonderful book, I started to… I do a lot of history and historical fiction, so part of the great pleasure of it is to do the homework, which I didn’t do much of in high school. But really, I dug into a lot of books. There were some very helpful books.

There was a book called Mon Cher Papa. It was about his correspondences. There was another one called Panorama of Paris, that was an eyewitness account to the late 18th century world of France and Paris in particular, and a number of other books. For references that I dug into, of course, I went into the American realists of the early 20th century, which I find myself often doing for some reason, in terms of the palette. Kubrick’s movie of that period of time… What the heck was it called?

Ayla Ruby: Oh, I am blanking on it.

Tim Van Patten: Barry Lyndon. Sorry. Barry Lyndon.

Ayla Ruby: Oh.

Tim Van Patten: Barry Lyndon was… How could you deny it? It is all candlelit and gorgeous and felt very alive. We wanted to create this very visceral world that the audience could access, and also for the actors to access.

Ayla Ruby: I know you’re a TV guy. Can you talk about why this worked as a miniseries versus a feature or why… What do you think, how that shakes out?

Tim Van Patten: For me, I guess it is the difference between exploring character and narrative for 6, 8, 10, 12 hours over the difference of two hours in a film. I feel it’s just so much deeper. I directed all eight of these, which is the first time I’ve ever done that. And it was very daunting.

But at the end of the day, it was totally rewarding because I felt, once we formed the team, that we were all in it together throughout the whole series, until I locked the door in post.

Ayla Ruby: You directed all eight episodes. What was that like for you, besides just being totally immersed in that? One episode of a series is a huge thing, and let alone something with so much history, so much period stuff. This is big task.

Tim Van Patten: The question, say it again, just once again.

Ayla Ruby: Getting into it, all eight episodes, what was your life like with it?

Tim Van Patten: Life wasn’t too bad because we shot it all in Paris, in and around Paris, so one of the great personal experiences I’ve ever had. And the cast, top to bottom, even the day players, background was superb. Everybody was superb. And I’m not just saying this, it was truly wonderful.

Top of the call sheet, number one, Michael, what a thrill it was to work with him. However, our biggest challenge was the actual schedule, in that we had to block shoot it. We shot it by location, so we would shoot each location out. An actor, or the department heads, would have to be prepared to do three different episodes in a day, four different episodes in a day.

That was complicated, but everybody was so on top of their game that we ran seamlessly throughout. But, that was complicated.

Ayla Ruby: That’s amazing. I know that outside of just being in France, you filmed at Versailles. You had amazing locations. Could you talk just anything about that?

Tim Van Patten: We had the access to Versailles every Monday, and we couldn’t wait to get there. I get there very early, if not first, second, after the security guards. I just wandered on at 4:30 in the morning. I walk right up into Versailles. I’m walking around in the empty hallways, the Hall of Mirrors, Louis’s bedroom. I had full access. It was just such a pleasure.

And then by the end we were like, “Oh, Versailles again.” No, I’m kidding. The whole thing was entirely shot in France. Every Chateau was absolute breathtaking, all unique in their own way, and very much representing the late 18th century extravagance and decadence.

Ayla Ruby: You mentioned Michael Douglas a couple of seconds ago, and I think I read that he was attached to the project right away, or first. Can you talk about that and how you found any of your other actors?

Tim Van Patten: Michael and I came on board at the same time early on. We were both dancing around it. Like I said earlier, it’s a daunting project, especially for him portraying Franklin. But he is such a professional, and I mean it, he was never more than 50 feet away from the camera. Even when he was waiting between shots, he was always there calmly in the sun reading the periodicals. He was just great. The cast and crew adored him. He was just terrific, humble person and very wise and a great producer. And a great producer, he really understands producing and production. That was fantastic.

And the other actors, it was just… We have a whole English contingent, Danny Mays and Eddie Marsan and Ed Stoppard and Tom Hughes and a host of others. And then we had this galaxy of stars from France, Ludivine Sagnier, Thibault de Montalembert, Assaad Bouab, Jeanne Balibar. They go through the day of work so professionally, like people with a lunchbox going to a factory or something. They just show up and they do the work. It’s such humility.

Ayla Ruby: That’s awesome. That’s actually a great way into this. A lot of the show is in French, and it’s really cool. I don’t think you speak French, from what I read, besides what maybe you’ve learned in the show?

Tim Van Patten: No. No, I don’t speak French, and I broke up with Duolingo very early on.

Ayla Ruby: How does that work? You’ve gotten these fantastic performances.

Tim Van Patten: Yeah.

Ayla Ruby: That’s just cool.

Tim Van Patten: What’s interesting, is that I wanted to do this on purpose because I’ve been doing it all so long. I wanted to see if I could see the truth in a performance without actually knowing the language.

Ayla Ruby: Oh.

Tim Van Patten: I knew the scripts really well. And we had a bilingual script supervisor, and we had the scripts translated in both languages, so I knew it, and that’s in front of me. But I’m just looking at a person talk and behave, and I was never thrown off. I have to say, I was never thrown off. Because it’s about truth, and the way people behave is a part of being truthful.

On occasion I’d say, “Did we get the nuance of this particular line?” There were some questions, but it was really so.. And most of the actors, almost all of them spoke English, so that communication was great. That was easy. I found there was no trouble in it for me.

Ayla Ruby: That’s fantastic. And it turned out great. Again, awesome. Franklin, the miniseries takes place over several years. How can you describe Franklin’s growth from where we meet him towards where it ends?

Tim Van Patten: We introduce him in a precarious situation. The world before him is completely unknown, and his mission, as we find out, is almost impossible. By the end, you’re feeling the weight of this mission. You see him in his most charming modes, and you see his frustrations. Second half of the show, once John Adams shows up unannounced and they start arguing even amongst themselves, our Founding Fathers, it gets… And he was battling also, he was unwell at the time, and getting increasingly unwell.

You can feel the weight, the burden of all this on him by the very end. And that’s why the rewards are so great, not just for him, but for the country

Ayla Ruby: I’m glad you mentioned that too, because there seems to be almost some parallels, just as I’m watching this, and some messages too that you can take away for relevance in today’s time. Is there anything that you think is a takeaway or any messages of the…

Tim Van Patten: Since we even started shooting, there were so many things that in our culture have come to pass and are going on. But I think the biggest message, and it’s absolutely self-evident, is that even Franklin was wondering if this experiment would work, this democracy, this republic, and we might find ourselves asking the same questions today.

Ayla Ruby: I think that’s a true sentiment. Obviously, it’s based on a book. Was there anything that the book covered that maybe didn’t quite fit into the series? We’d only see a little bit of America, for example.

Tim Van Patten: Right. There was only so much time that we had that we could fit in, and we just got focused. We chose a path and we went down it.

Ayla Ruby: You’ve obviously done a lot of period work. You have brought these amazing histories to life. As far as outside of what we’ve talked about, was there anything really super professionally gratifying to make happen with this series, or that shocked you or impressed you that you could actually pull this off and do this?

Tim Van Patten: You can pull it off if you’re surrounded by talented and good people. It’s essential for me, is to hire the best and the kindest people. You basically become a family and you work together. No one does this alone. This is a team effort. And that is satisfying unto itself.

But how the audience reacts, I have no control over that, and I hope people like it. But the truth is, I’ll always feel good about this experience because I think everybody who worked on it felt good.

Ayla Ruby: You worked very closely with Kirk Ellis and Howard Korder, right?

Tim Van Patten: Yes.

Ayla Ruby: Can you talk about what that process was to get the narrative of the show, make that cohesive and have that come out?

Tim Van Patten: I had worked with Kirk many years ago on a miniseries called Into the West, and I worked with Howard on Boardwalk Empire and Perry Mason, and so I had a nice shorthand with the guys, which has really, really helped. In fact, I had shorthand with David Franco, the DP, who did such beautiful work. He and I had done Boardwalk Empire together and Perry Mason and Masters of the Air and a number of things.

Having people around you where you have a history, we all know each other, we know… the time to spend on a show, you really get to know each other. Working in conjunction with our department heads that we handpick, it just turns out we had a great family.

Ayla Ruby: Is there anything that we haven’t talked about that you want people to know about the show or anything relating to Franklin?

Tim Van Patten: My hopes are that people will watch the whole show. And actually beyond this show, I hope that this ignites an interest in the beginnings of our nation’s story.

Ayla Ruby: That’s a lovely sentiment. Thank you so much for chatting. This has been wonderful.

Tim Van Patten: Oh, gosh. Thank you. I can’t believe how much you get to say in such a short period of time.

This interview has been lightly edited for clarity.