Danny Jarabek
While set in a fictional Irish town, The Woman in the Wall is based on the real-life history and harrowing true story of the Magdalene Laundries in Ireland. As the protagonist and also a producer on the series, Ruth Wilson plays a traumatized survivor and former convent of the troubling Roman Catholic institutions. Her character, Lorna Brady, is at the center of the BBC and Showtime series that operates between psychological thriller, gothic horror, and crime drama to devastating effect.
In conversation with Ruth Wilson, she describes the responsibility that she and the production team felt in making the representation of the women’s stories as truthful as possible while also delivering within the genre of the series. Although the last Laundry closed in the 90’s, the impacts on the survivors are still felt today. At the center of the series, Wilson embraces the challenge and intensity that Lorna Brady brings both physically and emotionally in bringing to light the abuses suffered by women at the Magdalene Laundries.
Read our full conversation with Actress and Producer Ruth Wilson below.
Hi, this is Danny Jarabek with Awards Radar, and I am very delighted to have with me Ruth Wilson, star of the Showtime and BBC series, The Woman in the Wall. Ruth, how are you today? Thank you so much for joining me.
Ruth: I am very good, thank you.
It is a pleasure to have you with me today because when I watched the series, I was totally compelled by what you were doing with this character. From the outset, from the first episode, I can recall being on the edge of my seat the entire time. I think that’s large in part due to what you do with the character of Lorna Brady. I’m curious to hear what your starting point was with connecting with this character and also this project, both as an actress and a producer for the show as well.
Ruth: I was sent a pilot a few years ago, just one episode, and I found the character utterly surprising and frightening. I did not expect her to be doing that by the end of the episode in Episode 1. So, I was like, ‘Wow. This is amazing. This is an interesting character.’ You feel like you are inside the brain of a potential killer. I thought that was really interesting, but this woman has also suffered major trauma. I thought that was a really interesting spin on her and that all those things can exist at the same time. And you keep playing with the audience’s perceptions and ideas of who that character is. For me, I just loved how wild she was, but I knew that it was dancing on something real, that it was coming. It was about a place of trauma for this person, where this person has been, and what their experiences have been in the past. And, obviously, because this is all inspired by true events, the subject matter also really appealed to me. It felt like a story that hadn’t really been told. I did know a little bit about the story from previous dramatizations like Philomena, and the Magdalene Sisters, but there really hasn’t been much out there about it. I realized that this is really a piece of recent history, it finished, all those things closed, those institutions closed in ’96, the last one. It made me think, ‘Wow, this story is not something in the 1950s. It’s something that’s in my history.’ I was sixteen when they were closing. So, to me, I felt like this is a story that needs to be told and get out there. A combination of that the character was surprising to me and interesting and constantly intriguing and the subject matter was really important. Those two things drew me to it.
I, too, find myself both fascinated and terrified by the realism of the tragedy of this. I did want to ask if you had been familiar with the stories at all of these Magdalene Laundries and what these women went through in real life, if you were familiar with that, or if that was something that you continued to learn and research throughout the process.
Ruth: I knew little bits. There’d been bits in the news and, of course, from those dramatizations that I’d seen before. I knew little things, but I didn’t know the full horror of what these women experienced in those places. I didn’t really understand that the children were adopted out. I didn’t understand that it was such a recent history. I didn’t know the details of the kind of women that were going in there and why they were going in there. It wasn’t just because they were pregnant. Someone would put in because they were pretty or because they stood out in some way. So, I always knew that this character of Lorna was someone that stood out when she was younger. I mean, she gets pregnant, but there’s a sense that these are the girls that are the ones that have got a voice and stand up for themselves. As a result, they get put in these institutions. I knew there should be something special about her or just a bit wilder and unconventional, maybe. That gave me clues as to who this woman was. These are special women, actually, that were put in there. The true horror of those – there are lots of oral histories that you can find online that I used – but when you start reading about what actually went on, it’s pretty terrifying. These women, these people that it happened to are alive now, and they’re still searching for their children. They’re still looking for compensation or reconciliation from the Irish government, and it’s been very hard to procure that. I mean, there was an apology, but there’s still more to be done. That’s why this story was so important to get out there.
Did you feel a level of responsibility in the representation of this story? Of course, being an on-screen, physical representation and manifestation of these stories that were so tragic and so personal to so many people, and those stories are still continuing to unfold.
Ruth: Yeah, it did. I think everyone involved felt a huge responsibility because also we were framing this show in a genre as well. We’re framing it through the horror genre and a crime thriller genre. Both those things, you felt you had to really dance delicately through tone on this show too because you’re dealing with real experiences and real people’s life experiences. It was really important for me that those scenes with all the women were as truthful as possible because they always grounded for me what the show was about. When we were in the development of the show, it was like we need to make those scenes the truth of the piece. Every time I was performing in those scenes with those women, those brilliant actresses, that really grounded me as a character and grounded Lorna in the truth of what this is all about. I thought if we could get that right and make that resonate and make people empathize, then we could lean in. We can find humor elsewhere. We can find the bleak humor, but we can also find the horror aspects, too.
That was one of the aspects that I really did love about the show, the balance of genre that felt like was being really played with here. The presentation visually has this gothic horror sensibility to it, but you’re also dealing with this really deep-rooted human grief and human drama, and at the same time, able to slip in some dark comedy as well. How did you navigate that both through the character but also through the overall writing and presentation of the show?
Ruth: It’s hard because I think you need humor. It’s such horrifying material, really. And in some ways, I think Joe [Murtagh] knew that if he placed it through genre, through the familiarity of a crime paper, almost, and horror, then you could lure audiences into something and make them go into or learn about a history of something they may never watch, usually. If it was just a social realist drama, we probably wouldn’t get so many people watching. But if you place it through some other lens, you can kind of hide it through something more commercial, in a way, or more accessible. I think that was the idea of it. It was hard. And certainly, as an actor, trying find a character that can balance all those genres was actually quite difficult, feeling like you’re going from one scene where it’s incredibly moving and traumatic into another scene which has a bit of humor in there. But I think she’s quirky. I think she has to find the humor in her life because she wouldn’t survive otherwise. I think that’s the truth of what those women are like, actually. They find humor in their world because they have to. I also think what’s so special, what I thought Joe did really cleverly, was that by placing a horror lens on it – I mean, these are horrifying experiences, but it is horror what she went through. So, actually, that’s quite smart, in a way, of placing in that world. It’s also a crime. I mean, what’s happened is a crime. Having that kind of genre placed on it too makes sense of the piece. But, yeah, we had to balance that. We found that a little of the serious, real trauma stuff went a long way. You needed less of that. It was almost too much to bear to watch that all the time. We realized quite early on that we had to balance that with the other stuff because it is quite full on.
Certainly. It seems to me, just getting familiar with some of your other characters and roles throughout your career as well, that you have a liking for psychologically demanding types of roles and female characters. Is that something that you look for or is that something that just has happened throughout your career where you’ve been drawn to these very physically and emotionally demanding types of characters?
Ruth: I think I’m probably someone that needs to be stimulated. I need it to be hard because then I feel like I’m doing it. You know? I’m going there. It’s not always the case. I mean, actually, the show I’ve just done now is much lighter fare and was interesting in a different way but didn’t demand as much emotional baggage from me. I like being challenged in that way. I like being pushed physically as well as emotionally. I enjoy the challenge of that and the work around it. I mean, what I love as an actor is I love the research. For this, it was like going deep into understanding this stuff. It was also going out to the west of Ireland. It was working on an accent that felt specific to that place and to that character. And then it’s like, I love the physical side. I knew that she was very fragile, in a way, emotionally. What she’s been through has weighed on her, and she’s got this heavy burden on her life, but she’s physically really strong because she does stuff in her house. And she will not be hurt again. She’s someone who does not want to give herself over to anyone else to be hurt. She’s got this physical strength, which I really love, the conflict of those two things. The fragility of the inside with this very strong exterior. I wanted to find that as well. I’m always really intrigued about all that stuff and making it as messy and as three-dimensional and surprising as possible. There are things like sleepwalking, which I love. I love the idea that this woman, all her subconscious came out in her sleep. I thought it was so smart and so fun to play. And that’s where you can get the humor in as well because she’s unconscious about what she’s doing, and she’s dangerous in her sleep. I thought that was a really, really good setup. And the sleepwalking, I found this brilliant woman online who records all her sleepwalking. I was like, that’s amazing, because I thought, ‘Oh, it’s going to be done like a zombie. We’ve seen that before. Is there another way of doing this?’ I found her online and she looked amazing. She looked like a young, sort of grown baby walking around, shoving stuff in her pants, chucking stuff, talking to plants, walking around, and farting. I was like, ‘This is amazing.’ This can also help with the humor. It’s like what she becomes when she’s in her sleep is her dark side. It’s her shadow side that comes out, and it’s quite playful and naughty. It’s all her subconscious. It’s how she exacts revenge. I thought that was a really smart take on it and we could have fun with that side alongside the darkness of the reality of hers.
Yeah. I very much agree. That’s something that I think was also surprising to me in watching, even just from the first episode, the level of physicality that is present in this character. I mean, multiple axe-wielding scenes just in this pilot. How did you prepare and tap into the physicality, especially the almost polar natures of this character of Lorna she’s dealing with so much emotional complexity when she’s awake, but there’s such a physicalness to how she behaves and when she’s asleep. How did you mold the, almost, two sides of that?
Ruth: I mean, I’m quite a physical person anyway, so I’m quite strong, and I do little workouts and all that. The physical side of it came quite easily. I’ve also got three older brothers. You know, I had to fight my way through life as a kid. I think that that comes quite easy to me, the physical side, so I didn’t have any problems with that. I mean, I did have to learn how to use a big burner thing. I can’t remember what it’s called now, but I had to use that and weld stuff, which I’ve never done before in my life. I was doing lots of painting and decorating, which was new for me. But in terms of the sleepwalking, I think watching that video gave me a completely different angle on it because it was written a bit like a zombie, and I thought, ‘That’s so boring.’ I’d think, ‘How can we do this differently? And is that really how you walk when you’re sleepwalking?’ So, finding this video was brilliant because she’s not in control of her movements. It’s slightly Marionette kind of walking. She’s out of control slightly. I quite liked that, the physicality. I found it literally the night before. I was like, ‘Okay, I’m just going to go with this.’ And luckily, no one told me no. I turned up on set and just went for it. Also, it’s all that gurning. You’re sort of out of control of your features and your expressions, so it’s over the top. It’s like you’re imagining being in the dream, turning, and it’s always a bit bigger. So, I felt it was quite nightmarish and dreamy, and that’s sort of what you would do probably in your sleep. It’s slightly overexpressed. I just went for something, and we made it work. But I have to say the filmmaking of it – Harry Wootliff who directed it and also Simon Bell who DP’d it – the style of that filmmaking where you’re up close makes it all subjective. It was really wonderful to have that because it’s then you have a direct relationship with that camera operator and with Harry, the director. It just feels really loose and freeing. I think that helped with the physicality. I didn’t have to hit marks, they were just following me and going with whatever I was doing.
Mm-hmm. You also alluded to this idea of the setting, which feels just so visceral in the series, I think. How did that inform the way that you moved your way through this story? Of course, it’s a fictional town, but the representation and the space is very much ingrained in the realism of this story. So, how did the setting inform and mold the way that the story unfolds?
Ruth: As you said, it’s a fictional town, but it’s based on the idea of these small towns or villages in the west of Ireland where there’s a close-knit community and everyone kind of knows each other’s business. Lorna’s an outsider in that town or she keeps to herself, but for that reason, everyone, I mean, you still know what she’s got up to, and her sleepwalking affects everyone. It’s kind of like the whispers and the stories that go around that town. In the same way, that’s how the Catholic Church had so much power in these places because those small villages were dominated by the church and by the local priest, and they had so much power. Of course, what someone was getting up to would get around. It’s the idea of these small communities and how they can be great in many ways, but they can also be quite terrifying, in some ways, too, and claustrophobic. We shot this actually in Ireland, and it was amazing. It’s also the beauty of the landscape next to this traumatic thing that’s going on inside it and the sort of quirk of all these people. So, I think that’s what it lent itself to, definitely. I mean, Ireland is absolutely stunning, and we had some great locations for it. It’s that idea of the beauty next to the dark and tragedy of that place.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time, Ruth. I really appreciated getting to hear a little bit more from you. It’s been really delightful.
Ruth: Thank you so much for having me!
Thank you. I really appreciate the time, and it’s a great role and a great series.
Ruth: Thank you. I’m glad we made it work.
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