Ayla Ruby
There are a few shows that have dominated the pop culture conversation, and Apple TV+’s Severance is one of them. The show that has spun endless fan theories about innies, outies, and, well, goats features actress Dichen Lachmann. As we found out towards the end of season two, Gemma and Ms. Casey are central to the mysterious world of Lumon Industries. Showcasing an extraordinary acting performance in the role, Lachman brings the fractured identities to screen, anchored by quiet moments of just being.
Over Zoom we chatted about Lachman’s character(s!) and how the actress brings Ms. Casey/Gemma to life. From detailed prep for that dental scene in Chikhai Bardo, to that fateful elevator scene in Cold Harbor, she talks about what goes on to make it so compelling on screen. Read ahead or listen above for the full conversation.
Ayla Ruby: So I was just rewatching and I feel like I just went through so many emotions again with the finale and I can’t wait to talk about that, but I know we’re two seasons into this and I kind of want to back up a little bit and talk about what kind of drew you to the show and drew you to this really complicated character, many characters kind of, sort of.
Dichen Lachman: So what drew me to the show initially, I mean obviously the incredible people, it’s like a no-brainer, but the bizarre world of it and just how it’s such a beautiful way to sort of allegorize the world that we live in and then to also explore our humanity because as I’ve mentioned that we don’t even have a chip, but I’m sure you have versions of yourself that you show in some situations that you don’t show in others and there’s one of you at home. And that sort of journey through being oneself really spoke to me. So I was just absolutely thrilled to be able to play with all these incredible people in this incredible world.
Ayla Ruby: As an actress, what’s kind of your process to getting into in touch with these inner persons? You’re getting into character. Because she’s more than one thing, right? As everyone is, there’s a lot of things going on. How do you do that as an actress?
Dichen Lachman: I used a lot of just the physical aspects of where someone in that space, in that context might sit and getting into character was a bit of a collaboration because of the hair and makeup team and costumes and even the things around you that you touch, the chair that you’re sitting in. All of that really helped me sort of develop the character, even the dialogue, but it really informs me more physically in terms of the posture, the muscles and the face, which ones are the most alive.
Obviously when you’re curious, when you’re scared, different parts of you start engaging and your breath works very differently. So in terms of finding each, they all have a different physical core and that really helped me get into character every time, including the incredible team. But that’s more just like of a physical life with the innie in terms of there’s so little backstory you can do for each innie because that’s all they’ve ever really known, which was actually kind of exciting to go and do that with incredible leadership and having the opportunity to play and find things. Obviously I made choices, but it was really wonderful to have the permission to just try lots of different things.
Ayla Ruby: I feel like I’m jumping ahead a little bit too in what I wanted to ask, but in episode seven, there’s so much of that, right? We’re learning so much about these consciousness, these kind of tortures that she’s going through. Can you talk about filming that, what the process was for… Obviously it’s not sequential, but how that worked?
Dichen Lachman: Well, I’ll tell you what, a lot of work went into the dental scene. I know it sounds crazy, but at one point we had a lot of rehearsals. There was a lot of attention to detail in terms of the color palette in that room. I had my teeth molded several times by this extraordinary guy who makes teeth, prosthetic teeth for actors if they want to mess them up or they want them to be more perfect. Pirates of the Caribbean, like that guy just does that.
So he molded my teeth because they wanted to actually be inside my mouth at one point with the camera and they wanted an actual dentist to be working on my mouth. And it was like this, they had meetings and meetings about it, but in the end, the prep for that scene, for whatever reason, they moved away from that. And that just in terms of behind the scenes felt like the longest period of time. We also had the strike. So we started working on the teeth. We knew that the dentist scene was going to happen when we started season one, and so we started working on it. Then everything went on hold and then we picked up, and then after the strike and kept going.
In terms of the Christmas scene, Jessica [Jessica Lee Gagné] and I had a really lovely conversation before the strike about just where she’s at in that space. And I remember Jessica mentioning there’s a rebelliousness here to her, it’s almost like a teenager, and I thought that was really interesting and it also helped me sort of layer into Gemma a little bit in her strengths and aspects of her characters. So there was a conversation about that.
The airplane one is quite straightforward. I mean anyone in that situation, an innie who doesn’t really understand what’s happening, it’s just her whole life is in this plane, there was less conversation about that and more just boring stuff. I had to take anti-nausea medication because once I was in this set, which was built on hydraulics, the cameras had to be bolted into the floor. So once you got in, it was very difficult to get out. So Robby [Benson] and I spent the whole day essentially in this, like basically being on rough seas. It was wild.
Ayla Ruby: I have an irrational fear of turbulence. Now, did that translate at all for you in your real life or was that just leaving it there?
Dichen Lachman: Oh, I hate turbulence. Oh my God. It’s like all of a sudden you start praying, even when you don’t normally pray. When you’re on set, you feel like very, very safe, but when I fly personally, I just sort of seize up and just hang on to my armrests like crazy and just like my life is flashing before my eyes. Because what can you do?
Ayla Ruby: Exactly.
Dichen Lachman: You’re in a tin can 30,000 miles in the air. Knock on wood. Apparently turbulence isn’t a bad thing. Hitting an air pocket is really dangerous.
Ayla Ruby: Because you go up or down, right?
Dichen Lachman: Yeah, it’s like fall thousands of feet. So now I always wear my seat belt always. I never take it off unless obviously you have to go to the bathroom.
Ayla Ruby: I totally get that. So you mentioned earlier a little bit about some of the physicality that kind of goes into the choices for these different iterations of the character, and so much of the show is just conveyed with close-ups and just quietness. Is that in the script? Can you talk about your choices there and how that has come about?
Dichen Lachman: Yeah, I mean those were probably some of the things, Gemma’s sort of ever present in either of this, because obviously Mark is there because he’s grieving this woman that nobody really understands or knows anything about, and then she’s like this tension that’s sort of building. And then you fall into episode seven and your instinct, I’m not a writer, but it’s like, oh, this is where everyone’s going to get to know her and stuff.
But then on the day, you go and you make choices and I’m very flexible. I really like to get notes. I love being noted because it gives me the feeling that I can try lots of different things. And one of the things that was actually a challenge is as an actor you always have to feel like you’re doing something, but creating those moments of tension, and Jessica was so wonderful, just allowing this time and this space of just being is something that you don’t get to explore very often. So as much as it was challenging to have that instinct to want to do something, it was about relaxing into the character, feeling everything and allowing her the opportunity, because she’s so wonderful visually to try and communicate to the audience what this woman is going through.
And I think she just did an extraordinary job and it really reminded me of my late acting teacher who studied with Stella Adler. She was like a mentor more than a teacher, but also a teacher. She told me, Stella would always say, “Don’t just do something, stand there.” And I think it’s something that a lot of people who are in front of the camera I think struggle with because you feel like you have to justify being there.
But when I think the story is so well-crafted, you find that those lingering moments are really important for the audience to breathe and live with that person. And because we had such a short period of time with Gemma, it was a big task for all of us, the whole crew, Jessica, myself, Adam [Scott], everyone to really care about her because everyone spent such a lot of time with the other characters, a season and a half, and now we have one episode to all of us really get the audience to feel really invested in Mark and Gemma’s relationship.
Ayla Ruby: I think it worked. First of all, the choices, it absolutely worked. But I think too, being invested in their relationship really, really worked. And by the end of the season in that last episode, those last couple of moments, wow, there was so much there too.
Dichen Lachman: It really pulls you as an audience member because you care so much about Mark and Helly. I mean, hopefully we did our job and you’re torn, they’re in this place where it’s such a difficult situation.
Ayla Ruby: It is. And I think even the beginning of that episode of Cold Harbor where he’s kind of having this argument with himself via the camcorder, it’s just like the whole thing was beautiful.
Dichen Lachman: It’s such an extraordinary, extraordinary job.
Ayla Ruby: Yeah. So I want to talk more about Cold Harbor because there’s this super emotional reunion on the test floor for Gemma and the outie Mark… Or, I’m sorry, the outie Mark, I’m going to get confused here. I have to keep them all straight. They have this one moment, which I feel like audiences were really excited about. Did you anticipate that or?
Dichen Lachman: I wasn’t sure how, I mean, obviously it’s like a moment people have been waiting for. I wasn’t sure how it was going sort of fall into place and we just, on the day it just sort of happened. Obviously I had a lot of other things I had to do because he’s going through the threshold and sees him and that was probably one of the more challenging days. But Adam was just so, so wonderful and the way they captured that moment, I think, just when I see it, I don’t see me, I just see them. It’s really beautiful. And just Adam’s face when she comes to recognize him is heartbreaking.
Ayla Ruby: And then as an actress, you have to… and I’m assuming it’s not filmed sequentially, you have to, they don’t know each other again, right? There’s an elevator where it’s innie Mark and Ms. Casey.
Dichen Lachman: Gemma, someone remarkable edited Gemma’s timeline in 10. And I watched it and even I hadn’t… I mean I’d obviously thought about it, but it didn’t dawn on me that poor Gemma is jumping through time and it’s just wild, but it’s not shot sequentially, no.
Ayla Ruby: So you mentioned that that day was a little bit challenging. Were there any other moments or things that were challenging or that you were really proud of being able to pull off with season two that we haven’t talked about?
Dichen Lachman: I mean, I think that the final moment in 10, that’s another huge transition from Ms. Casey to Gemma, and where Gemma was and then where she finds herself, like she’s in the elevator with Mark and then she goes through the threshold and he’s walking away from her, essentially.
Ayla Ruby: She’s pounding on the door.
Dichen Lachman: Yeah. So that was probably the most challenging transition. And all of, the whole process of doing 10, and then to your point about not shooting sequentially, we saved… I mean I had nothing to do with it, but they decided to shoot seven at the end of the season when the weather was beautiful and the blossoms were out. So that was done on purpose and it actually worked out really well because Adam and I got to spend a lot more time together than we ever have filming 10. And then that really helped I think us just as people at work be comfortable with each other.
Even those little things like sharing stories about your kids and stuff, it puts you in a space where you feel safe with someone because you know something a little bit about their life and they know a little bit about you and you have to create this relationship that feels so, as much as you can grounded and real. So that was really special, but the whole thing was challenging because of having to jump between these emotions that are at other ends of the spectrum in an instant, and also finding where Gemma was at down there in that basement and really playing with the tone of where she was because she’d been down there for quite a while.
Ayla Ruby: Years, right?
Dichen Lachman: Yeah. Part of her has sort of resigned to it, but part of her is still believing that at some point they’re going to let her go.
Ayla Ruby: Yeah, I mean, you’ve done a marvelous job with the character and it’s such a joy to watch the show and theorize about it partially because of your wonderful job with it.
Dichen Lachman: Oh, thank you. I theorize about it too because I don’t know what’s going to happen, but there are so many questions and I think that’s what makes the show so special is that they’ve… all these characters are so beautifully lived in and just beautiful to watch on the screen in this incredible world that is like nothing you’ve ever seen before.
Ayla Ruby: That’s part of why it’s appealing, right? There are so many things to think about ethically, philosophically. As a viewer, it’s kind of left me with a lot of things to think about. Has it left a lasting mark on you besides career and all that awesomeness, just as a human?
Dichen Lachman: Yeah, as a human, absolutely. Part of it is sort of the myth we’ve all agreed on in this world that we live in, all the things… Our society is built around the rules. A lot of them make sense, some of them don’t. I know there’s like in a lot of countries, there’s old laws from the 1600s that are still laws which make no sense, but it’s like in order to create this society, we’ve all bought into this construct and what does it really mean and what’s life actually about? We think about our lives as artists, as journalists, as creative people who are curious. There’s a desire to explore, but at the same time, you have to, and you might find yourself asking that question, but why are we doing it? Because at the end of the day, it’s love and companionship and relationships that when you’re in the sunset of your life, that’s ultimately what you think about.
I mean, I’m sure there are people who think about the legacy they’ve built and the amazing things they’ve done in their career or whatever, but they’re all things that I feel like can just disappear. And as an actor, you experience highs and lows in a much more contrasty way. And so I feel like you reflect on it more deeply sometimes instead of that loop that you’re in a nine to five job. I think a lot of people in the world like Lumon, they get to their age of retirement potentially, and it’s just, “Oh, that went by fast.” And there’s never an opportunity to question the construct and why we do everything that we do. But it absolutely makes you ask questions.
And sometimes it’s sad because you realize that because we bought into the construct, we don’t really have any other choice because you have to live in a house and you have to pay bills and the mortgages and rent, or there are just things that you have to do that require this transaction for money. And sometimes I’m like, well, if money didn’t matter, what would I be doing? It would probably be owning a nursery and working… I actually like plants, so-
Ayla Ruby: Yeah.
Dichen Lachman: … bit of a coincidence that Gemma likes plants. But you know, it definitely, definitely does. And maybe that’s why people, it’s resonated so deeply with people because it makes them ask those questions as well.
Ayla Ruby: Yeah, that could be. I know we’re just about at time, but is there anything else you kind of want people to know about your work on Severance or just anything else about you or coming up that you’re working on?
Dichen Lachman: About me? I have a couple of little things that I can’t share yet, but I’m just so excited and grateful to be in this position, to be able to talk to you and be a part of this journey with everybody, because I’m sure you’ve talked to so many actors. I’ve been doing this for, I think it’s almost 20 years, and-
Ayla Ruby: Oh wow.
Dichen Lachman: … the level of contrast I’ve had in my life, or even in one year sometimes is just so vast and I’m only just starting to be at peace with it. It’s been an extraordinary up and down journey and I have no question that there will be more ups and downs, because that’s what we sign up for, but I’m just blown away and truly grateful to be able to talk about the show, a show that resonates so deeply with people. I’ve been on other shows that people have really loved, I’ve been lucky, but my interaction with people when I’m moving about my life, about this show, it’s on another level, the conversations we have, and you can see I’m a bit of a talker.
Ayla Ruby: That’s totally fine. I love it.
Dichen Lachman: I like engaging with people and asking them why they love it, and yeah, it’s like a very wonderful, magical thing to be a part of it. Is there anything else you wanted to ask? Because I ate up some of our time going to get-
Ayla Ruby: No, I have so many questions, but I’m sure I can’t ask many of them because there are so many about the show. But this has been wonderful. Thank you for chatting and I’m so excited to see season three and everything else you do in the future.
Dichen Lachman: Yeah, me too. I can’t wait. I can’t wait to see what Dan and his team and Ben, they all come up with, because they left on such a cliffhanger that it’s like, so where do they go? Where do they go from here? I don’t know. It’s going to be exciting.
Ayla Ruby: It’ll be fantastic. Thank you.
Severance will return for a third season on Apple TV+.
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