Interview: Co-Showrunner Sonja Warfield on Crafting ‘The Gilded Age’

Sonja Warfield is a brilliant writer and is the co-showrunner of MAX’s The Gilded Age. Along with creator Julian Fellowes and the other writers, she’s responsible for helping transport us to a world a hundred years ago where money reigned. Her wit is razor sharp, having honed it on the award-winning sitcom Will & Grace and Zoe Ever After.

This was an exciting conversation, and Warfield talked in depth about season 2 of The Gilded Age and what went into the journeys for many of the characters. She talked about Peggy and the Black elite of that time period and also about writing Ada’s story and empowering Cynthia Nixon’s character through a later-in-life love story. Warfield chatted about Jack and how his story represented the differences between making it in America versus the UK. Warfield even teased season 3, although she was mum on details. Read on for the entire conversation or listen to the audio above.

Ayla Ruby: So I’m really excited to talk. I’ve talked to a bunch of people from the show now, so I’m just really happy to talk to one of the creative brains behind it.

Sonja Warfield: Thank you. Me too. I’d love to talk about the show.

Ayla Ruby: I love the story and I’m really curious what kind of brought you into the world of The Gilded Age? Why was it interesting for you? What made you think this is something cool that I want to do?

Sonja Warfield: I think it’s always been interesting for me since I was a child. I was one of those weird tween teenagers who would ask my mom to drop me off at the historical society so I could tour around. I’ve always been a fan of Edith Wharton novels and that time period and I went to this private all-girls school in Shaker, Heights, Ohio and we had a very classical education and a Winged Victory statue replica, of course, in our hallways. So it was kind of a no-brainer for me. I was a debutante as well, so it was sort of interesting and HBO wanted Julian to have an American co-writer to have that influence because he’s very British and it’s set in America. So it was just sort of … I had that sensibility already and it worked out.

Ayla Ruby: That’s awesome. I think so many of the stories are centering women too. Did that factor into it, do you think?

Sonja Warfield: Well, absolutely because as I said, I went to this all-girls school, so I grew up in an environment where I was always empowered and I always had a voice. As I said, I love those Edith Wharton novels and novels of that time period, and that’s where women had the power was at home and in the social stratosphere. So it resonated with me, I could relate to it and I loved it.

Ayla Ruby: With season two, obviously things get kicked up a notch. There’s the Opera Wars that we kind of see, I guess, the seeds planted for very deliberately at the end of one. I would love to know your view on just why that story for season two and what things you’re kind of excited to get into with that.

Sonja Warfield: With season two?

Ayla Ruby: Yes.

Sonja Warfield: Well, so Julian always had that idea to do the Opera Wars because it was a real historical act. What was so interesting to me was that … so my aunt is an opera singer who performed at the Met. I was not aware there was an Academy of Music until Julian told me that entire story because the Met had subsumed everything opera in New York. So the history was fascinating to me as is the history, all of this unknown history, that I’m learning or history sort of about marginalized people that we don’t get to see depicted on screen. So when Julian told me the story and that obviously he wanted to fictionalize it to an extent, but portray that event, it really did consume New York and the Met displaced the Academy of Music, which was the place where everyone went to see and be seen and to go to the opera.

I mean, what I liken it today would be everyone goes to the US Open, or people now sort of go to some sporting events and have floor seats. So this would sort of be like if suddenly there was something bigger than Madison Square Garden, you know what I mean? And then all the sports were like, “We’re going there. We’re not going to MSG anymore.” So I loved the idea and that’s what we did.

Ayla Ruby: You mentioned a little bit that the season also talked about some marginalized people, and that’s one of the cool things I think about the show. You have the lives of the servants, you have the lives of people you don’t normally think of with The Gilded Age. As a historical thing, not the show. I would love to know how that came about, the decision to focus on more of a broader thing instead of just the glitz.

Sonja Warfield: Yes. Well, the truth of the matter is there was a Black elite at that time, and when we see film and television portrayed in that time period, which is not even 20 years after the Civil War, people of color, namely Black people, are always … we always see their portrayals in relation to enslavement. So what Julian wanted to do was show that, guess what? There was a Black elite. We work very closely with Dr. Erica Dunbar, who’s a historian and she has filled in so much of the narrative that I think has been lost or buried about Black people. I’ve even used stories from my own family, historical stories from my own family that I know to be true. But those just filmmakers and people who write television in the past have either just sort of glommed on to that stereotypical narrative of enslavement or the time right after enslavement, thinking that all people of color did was have four acres and a mule after Emancipation.

But there are all these untold stories. I mean, Isabel, Wilkerson’s The Warmth of Other Suns, for example, tells the story of the Great Migration. But these are just not the stories that are in our history books, unfortunately, and I feel privileged to be a part of a television show that is bringing those stories forward in an authentic way, in an entertaining way, and telling those untold stories that existed.

Ayla Ruby: There’s a moment in, and I can’t remember right now if it’s season one or season two, where Marion goes to Peggy’s house…

Ayla Ruby: Where she realizes that everything she’s assumed is totally wrong and she’s got the suitcase and I think.

Sonja Warfield: With the shoes.

Ayla Ruby: Yep. It’s such a brilliant moment.

Sonja Warfield: Well, so that moment was something that Julian and his wife had experienced and he drew from that specifically with the old shoes. But yes, that moment was to upend what Marion’s assumptions were about Black people and just kind of blow her mind, and no Peggy’s father is … they’re part of the Black elite. Peggy’s father is a businessman. He owns his own business, he’s a pharmacist. He’s been trained and Peggy’s educated. So it’s really just to disrupt people’s assumptions based upon what they’ve heard or seen and not what they’ve experienced.

Ayla Ruby: I think it does such a great job of that. I talked to Bob Shaw, the production designer a couple of days ago.

Ayla Ruby: He talked about working with you guys to bring these massive sets, massive worlds to life. I was kind of wondering from your perspective, how does that collaboration work? Because you write the words on the page and what’s that like? How does that process work?

Sonja Warfield: Bob, I mean, first of all, he is brilliant, and it’s kind of magical, honestly. I remember the first time I was on the set of Bertha’s house and I walked down that grand staircase and I literally told Julian and I said, “I feel like a debutante all over again.” It’s very gilded, it’s very beyond. But Bob studies everything and he’s just masterful at his work. I don’t have to tell you that or anybody else his Emmy and Emmys and all of it tells that. I think Bob, like many of us, we immerse ourselves into that world. We almost start speaking The Gilded Age talk, that language. We have a diction coach on set, almost to the point where I don’t think we … I mean, yes, we need it because … and we can almost correct each other because we’ve been immersed in it. I think that’s part of getting into it creatively. Just every single time we come up with something, he takes it to another level. So he is just brilliant at his work and does all the research.

Ayla Ruby: Was there anything from the scripts or from the writer’s room that didn’t quite make it in this season, that it just didn’t work narratively with any of the characters or just …

Sonja Warfield: I mean, I think there are always things that we would like to do, and then we see that, “You know what? Let’s save that for another season.” There was a story with Bridget that we didn’t quite have the space for because we have such a large ensemble and we needed the real estate really for Jack’s story. The end of season two, we say goodbye to Watson, which makes room for another servant story. that’s what’s beautiful about having this large ensemble is that if we can’t service somebody this season, perhaps we’ll get them in next season.

Ayla Ruby: Now, you just mentioned Jack’s story a little bit, and I was wondering if you could kind of talk about that over this season and the decisions, the ideas that went into that.

Sonja Warfield: Again, we work closely … Dr. Dunbar is one of our historians and she’s co-executive producer of the show. I work closely with her. Then we have some other historians and so we always ask for real research, these historical facts that we can use to either bring the whole cast together in episodes like the Brooklyn Bridge or Edison’s Lights in season one. What Jack is doing is really specific to America because especially at the time, and this is true I think for England now, is that the posh and the upper class got those positions by birth. But in America, you can make some money and suddenly you’re welcome, you’re it.

We saw first season Bertha being the new money but breaking into that old money circle. So it can be done in America. In England, you could go out and make a great invention, but you’re still not going to be invited to those posh people’s parties because you’re not of that ilk. What we wanted to demonstrate with Jack was that, the American dream, essentially. He could create something out of seemingly nothing and perhaps rise to the top. You’ll see what happens with that. It’s capitalism, it’s innovation, and it’s all things American essentially.

Ayla Ruby: Outside of what we’ve talked about, is there a storyline or character, you have an amazing cast, that was just really interesting to kind of write for, to kind of spin up these plots for this season?

Sonja Warfield: Yes. During the first season, I had a conversation with Julian about Cynthia Nixon’s character Ada. I love writing for Cynthia and for Christine and Agnes, I just was like … I feel like these characters are real people to me. But Agnes was just getting on my nerves in terms of she was just beating her sister down. Then I started to wonder more about Ada’s backstory, and I asked Julian if she had ever had romance or anything, ever done anything, and he’s like, “No”, he’s like, “She would still be a virgin.” Then I was reminded of just a story in my life about somebody who found love at a later time in life, and it was kind of empowering to them.

So I asked Julian if Ada could have love, if she could finally meet someone and have love for season two. So we created that story with Robert Sean Leonard, who was amazing, and obviously because it’s a drama and we needed to have the sisters back in their dynamic, yet it might have changed a little bit, we’ll see in season three, that’s how that story came about. I wanted her to have love, and Cynthia is such a fantastic actress that I knew that arc, she could do so many wonderful things with that.

Ayla Ruby: Seeing it realized over the season and seeing … I think that moment maybe in the finale or episode before the finale where the butler asks her if that was okay with her, it was just really cool and just such good television.

Sonja Warfield: Yes. That’s Julian Fellowes.

Ayla Ruby: So we’re pretty close on time. Is there anything else you want people to know about the show or just about anything in The Gilded Age?

Sonja Warfield: If you like season two, you’ll love season three, so please watch.

Ayla Ruby: Awesome. Well, thank you so much.

Sonja Warfield: Thank you. Nice to meet you.

This interview has been lightly edited for clarity.