Ayla Ruby
In the sunny skies doubling for Palm Beach in the 1960s, Josh Lucas plays Douglas, the husband of protagonist Kristin Wiig’s Maxine Simmons on Apple TV+’s Palm Royale. The actor has been in everything from Yellowstone (as the Young John Dutton) to Ford V. Ferrari and, yes, Sweet Home Alabama. The specter of Lucas’ character hangs over Maxine – Is he real? Is he just a fantasy cooked up by the pageant winner? until he finally makes his grand appearance (complete with pilot’s uniform in styling reminiscent of Catch Me If You Can) towards the end of the first episode, Maxine Goes to Palm Beach.
Based on the book Mr. and Mrs. American Pie, Palm Royale talks about the rarified life of the upper classes in Palm Beach, Florida, in the late 1960s. The mysterious Maxine appears out of nowhere and desperately wants to join the ranks of high society at first through an ultra-exclusive country club. (Which just happens to employ actor Ricky Martin’s character.) Over the course of the season, Maxine jockeys for power and a different kind of crown along with the most cunning women (including characters played by Leslie Bibb, Allison Janney, and Carol Burnett) in a world and time in history where this was what empowerment was. Palm Royale is Maxine’s story, but so much of her quest and what she does in the colorful series because of Lucas’ Douglas, who is the heir apparent to the royalty known as the Dellacorte family.
Over Zoom, we sat down with the actor to discuss his character in depth. Lucas shared what it was like playing Douglas, who goes from Prince Charming when we first meet him to a flawed and messy character as the season progresses. Lucas talked at length about the relationship between Douglas and Wiig’s Maxine and his belief that despite all the character’s lies, he really does believe that Douglas loves Maxine. Lucas shared the vulnerability in Douglas and playing in a sandbox with other incredible actors. Palm Royale was just renewed for a second season, and when we talked, the news hadn’t broken yet. But we asked Lucas about his hopes, and he shared what he hoped was in store for the future there, too.
Read on for the full interview, or listen to the audio above.
Josh Lucas: Hi, Ayla. Nice to meet you too.
Ayla Ruby: So I’m very excited to talk. I just finished watching the finale again. So, yeah, amazing job.
Josh Lucas: Thank you very much.
Ayla Ruby: I’d love to know a little bit how you first got onto Palm Royale and what appealed to you about the project because it’s really cool.
Josh Lucas: Yeah, it was, all of us, I’ve heard the same thing from Carol and Ricky and everybody, the group of people that was already on board when I came, or was sent the project, was so… It was such an embarrassment of riches. It was like, I’m a huge fan of Kristen, and I think the thing about Kristin is that she’s just such a touching actor. There’s something so heartbreaking or heartwarming about her while also being obviously such an incredible comedic personality. But then, obviously it was just ridiculous. It was Allison Janney and it was all these people, right?
So to me, even before, what was unique about it though was that they told me, “Look, when you read the script and… You’re not in it basically, and you’re not going to be… it for a while.” And so it was, I don’t want to say a leap of faith in that way, but it was, to me, to go back to comedy, to go back to be a part of such a… I always say in this business, it’s guilty by association, and in this way it was the best way to be guilty. I was so excited to be this guilty.
Ayla Ruby: So I’d love to talk a little bit about, you mentioned your character’s barely in it initially. How did you get into that mindset? How did you, because again, this is super different than drama. It’s comedy, it’s…
Josh Lucas: Well, at the beginning it was almost like the whole thing of trying to create a character who is almost possibly a fantasy. You hope the audience thought that maybe he wasn’t real. So even down to the way you played him, almost too perfect, right? And then that’s the joy of Douglas is that, in the beginning, he’s this idea or this prince, right? He’s totally Prince Charming, and then from there, he descends into one chaotic mess after… And so fun about playing him and I always saw him… To go from being this perfect prince into this wildly flawed, probably not very bright, completely messed up drunk, was just great, great fun. But also to find the through line of, I do believe that he really loves her, that he believes that she has saved him from the ugly world of Palm Beach that he’s wanting to escape.
He says, Palm Beach triggers him. And that whole, the wealth and the pressure of all of it, I think he always was lost in it when he was there. And so when he falls in love with Maxine, I think he genuinely… I think the scene in the airplane where he’s screaming how much he loves her, I think they really are soulmates. And that’s, I think, the beautiful heartbreak of it all, and they have such a connection because they’re both schemers. They’re both trying to make something of the mess of their lives, and they’re both, in a weird way, orphans and outcasts. And I don’t know, I really loved all of those connections that they had. And to watch how Douglas destroys it all, I think is hopefully a lot of fun and was really fun to play with this miraculous group of women, right? It was just so electrifying being there on set.
Ayla Ruby: There’s a moment in the finale where it’s a moment of super vulnerability between Maxine and Douglas, where he’s saying he wanted to be worthy of her. That’s part of all of his scheming, and then it all gets taken away that I think is just such a great representation in their relationship.
Josh Lucas: Yeah, that’s what I also try and find with him is, as much as he’s a silly character in a way, and as much as he’s easily just a mess, is finding these really wonderful truths. And I think this is very true of most people, is that most people, even if they’re a bad person, they have these breakdowns of vulnerability and these moments where they realize that their life is lost. And I think the way he talks to her, at one point in this episode before when he says to her, “I can’t do anything without you,” and I think there’s such a genuine tragedy there to him as a man, and that at the same time, I always wanted to hold onto this love that they had for each other.
I of course, deeply hope there’s a second season because I want to see how that is explored, particularly after he’s done. He’s made such a disaster of their lives together, and broken her heart so badly, and broken his own heart so badly with his own demons and bad behavior. But again, the show is purposely a confection. It’s really supposed be to be playful, and light, and joyful to watch. And I think the thing that is so remarkable about the final episode, but about a lot of different moments in the show, is that it just has these beautiful underlying subtle truths and subtle pathos, and we never try and talk about politics. We never try and talk about all the things that are clearly going on in the country in that period of time, which obviously reflects so much about today as well, because it’s designed to be that they are ignoring it all. And it’s that’s what I think is so interesting about the show, the depth that is underneath the candy. That’s what I find.
Ayla Ruby: Yeah, just from, there are so many different storylines, from Laura Dern’s character, [and] a group of women, from Ricky Martin’s character, there’s just so much cool stuff, again, reflecting of society, that’s happening, that’s under the surface of this world.
Josh Lucas:Well, I think, I really love hearing Ricky talk about it, right? Because I love hearing Ricky talk about his own journey coming out as a gay man and knowing that, in the 1960s, how really painful, and difficult, and dangerous that would’ve been, right? And all of these characters, in some way, are lonely outsiders, and they’re so desperate to try and fit in to this terrible world, but they think it’s going to save them. And they think, if they get accepted, it’s like they get to be part of the club that is going to make their lives have meaning. And it’s a really lost goal, and I think that’s part of what the show is talking about, is the vapid nature of that existence, when all of them have this core deep tragedy, and flaw, and yearning, and humanity underneath it all.
I think they hired a group of actors who, I think, we’re all at points in our lives where we all have been through enough that there’s, I guess, a well-earned vulnerability to all of our own lives, and careers, and being parents, and having had serious struggles. And I find the show quite interesting from the group of actors involved because everyone is weirdly vulnerable or open about their own lives when we’re hanging out on set and talking. And all the press, to watch Ricky talk that way, and I think Kristin’s been very open with her own struggles about becoming a mom and her career. And I think for all of us, I think these characters don’t have that, right? These characters are all trying to… I think that’s a really interesting duality to the reality of us as actors as opposed to these characters.
Ayla Ruby: Is there anything that you think is maybe misunderstood about Douglas, that we haven’t talked about, or under the surface, or just that you want people to know about Douglas?
Josh Lucas: It leads back to the Carol of it all, right? The idea that Carol, this is such a spoiler, but that Carol is not who she says she is.
Ayla Ruby: Right.
Josh Lucas: I think Douglas is who he says he is. I love that moment early on in the show when he’s like, “I didn’t know myself back then, Max.” He’s a guy who thinks he’s figured it out, and the reality is he’s probably more lost than ever, but it’s coming from a place of good. I keep describing him as this puppy dog that’s just tearing the house apart, having a great time doing it, but doesn’t realize the damage that he’s doing. And I think the thing is, I think Douglas genuinely thinks he’s a good person, is trying to be a good person.
I think he genuinely wants a good, healthy, happy life with his wife. And I think, what you wouldn’t know about him, I’m also really intrigued and excited, if there’s a second season, to see how they develop, obviously, the relationship with what’s going to happen with Kaia and how does Max deal with this impending disaster? And not just the terrible heartbreak of it, but the reality of it. I don’t know, Douglas, I just really, it’s weird. I really care about Douglas, and that’s been the tightrope wire to walk with him, is that a character that’s so easily unlikable with the actions and yet, I don’t know, I find him really just touching, and wonderful, and silly, and all these great things that’s just so much fun to play.
Ayla Ruby: What was your reaction when you read the finale script where you find out that Mitzi’s pregnant, and obviously there’s going to be all this fallout, presumably?
Josh Lucas: I keep going back to the writers and talking about, well, you got to hold onto the fact that he loves Maxine. And it’s like, well, that’s hard to do with what he’s done, and yet, I think as a human being, I can tell you, I think life is so messy. And I think that people make these terrible mistakes in their life, but that doesn’t mean that they’re a bad person. And I know men who’ve had affairs, who deeply love their wife, and that destroys the whole world that they live in. But that to me is where I grab onto the heart of Douglas and the heart of his relationship with Maxine. And why I think her performance is so incredible in the final episode is that you see the pain because there’s so much love, as opposed to Leslie Bibb’s character, right, who frankly is, she’s such a survivalist.
It’s almost like you really wonder, does she care at all about Perry? Or down to Allison Janney, does she care about Bruce Dern’s character or are they just surviving? And I think what’s at the heart of the show is that Maxine and Doug, they deeply love each other. And I think that will be such a interesting thing to explore if there’s a season two, to see how that evolves inside such heartbreak, right?
Ayla Ruby: Yeah. Well, I hope there’s a season two, and I know we’re getting close on time, so is there anything you want people to know about Douglas, or Palm Royale, or anything else you’re working on?
Josh Lucas: Part of it is like, I’m so fascinated by what Carol is doing. This actor who’s, what? This legend, who’s 90 years old, who is there with such joy and such a gift to all of us. And then to see her performance and see this person who’s, at the end of the day, almost a villain, right? And to have the great Carol Burnett doing that, and I’m so intrigued to see that next phase. And I think it’s also interesting to be with an actor like Carol, who’s at a point in her career where she’s so clearly like, come on, give us a second season, let us keep [keep going]. She’s been so clear about that, and I think we all feel that way.
We all had a very lucky experience on this job because we care about each other. And my hope is that that comes through the screen, and that even if these characters are being terrible to each other, the group of people that were involved in making the show have the exact opposite feelings. And that’s why we all really, obviously from a work standpoint, but more from the experience when you get to go to work with people you love, it’s a very rare thing.
Ayla Ruby: Oh, that’s awesome, and that’s a wonderful sentiment. Thank you very much.
Josh Lucas: Oh, happily. Yeah, absolutely.
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