Sophia Soto
Living up to the hype of last year’s Wicked, the most successful Broadway film adaptation of all time, was no easy task, but the story would be incomplete without Jon M. Chu’s Wicked: For Good, which shows the life-changing consequences of the characters’ choices in the first part. Myron Kerstein, who previously received two Oscar nominations and won two ACE awards for his work on Wicked and tick, tick… BOOM!, had a crucial role in ensuring that the untold story of the witches of Oz reached its proper emotional conclusion.
Audiences not only witnessed the full arcs of Glinda (Ariana Grande) and Elphaba (Cynthia Erivo), but also how Boq (Ethan Slater) and Fiyero (Jonathan Bailey) eventually transformed into the Tin Man and Scarecrow from 1939’s The Wizard of Oz.
Read Awards Radar’s full interview with the editor below, where he opens up about Wicked: For Good’s drastic change in tone, the experience of watching both films back-to-back, living up to the impact of Wicked, how this project changed him for the better, the story’s universal relevance, and much more.
You edited both films simultaneously. Why was that important for you to do, and how do you think it helped you notice connections that you might not have noticed otherwise?
Myron Kerstein: Jon and I wanted to make sure that we understood the complete story of Wicked when cutting both movies. Not unlike films like Lawrence of Arabia, The Sound of Music, the Star Wars saga, or The Wizard of Oz itself, we were telling a very big story on a grand canvas. This was a saga, and as Jon described to me, the greatest love story ever told meets The Lord of The Rings. By editing both movies, we can see the full character arcs of Glinda and Elphaba and how the audience might connect to them emotionally. As we assembled the 250 hours of footage, shot over eight months, we started to draw connections between the characters’ choices in the first film and the resulting consequences in the second. For example, Glinda chooses to stay with Morrible and the Wizard at the end of part one, and Elphaba chooses to fight them. These choices would carry through the second film, and put pressure on each of them and others around them. Glinda and Elphaba have chosen paths that will nearly destroy their friendship and their ability to be together. Another example is when Glinda suggests to Boq to ask Nessa to the dance at the Ozdust Ballroom in part one. This simple gesture by Glinda is the first step towards the eventual doom of Boq and Nessa in part two. So, in small and big ways, we can see how the connections might develop over the course of the editing of the two films and adjust accordingly.
Also, from a resource standpoint, the entire music and VFX team can see what Jon and I are planning down the line with both films. They can start to develop the yellow brick road for part two as we edit part one. Music can start thinking about tone in part two as we edit part one. We all benefited from knowing what was ahead and tried to plan for the years ahead in the post.
What do you hope audiences appreciate most about the change in tone when it comes to the second movie?
What I hope the audience appreciates about the change in tone is that they’re experiencing a complete story that isn’t a carbon copy of the first film. In the first film, there’s a lot of setup, lightness, comedy, and world-building. In the second, we drop into darkness and melodrama, and hopefully, pay off that completes the saga. I love movies that have a lot of different colors to them. And so, when you get to experience both parts, I think you feel like it’s a complete story and that these characters have gone on this really beautiful journey together. I also love films that have a lot of melodrama, and I feel like the second film is a political thriller, a tragedy, infused into a love story, filled with betrayal. I think it makes for something that is very classic Hollywood saga to me.
What was the experience of getting to watch the first cuts back-to-back like for you? Who were you most excited to show?
The first time I watched both films back-to-back, I was pretty devastated. There wasn’t a dry eye in the room with the edit team, Jon, and the producers. I’d never experienced quite anything like it; to watch these characters meet for the first time, to then become best friends, and then to go on the journey together, only to end up torn apart as they showed their love for each other. As I said, it was unlike anything else I’d ever experienced in any other cut. It was pretty amazing. Of course, I couldn’t wait to show the studio and, of course, the audience, but what we felt in the room that first day was pretty unique and special.
What helps you decide when to move footage from one part to the other?
There was definitely a challenge to provide context for the audience in part two about what they might have missed from part one, or what is important to remember from part one. For example, as the characters deal with consequences in part two, inherently leading to conflict, it was also important to remind the audience that there was a friendship between Boq, Nessa, Fiero, Glinda, and Elphaba. So we saved the friendship montage that was left on the cutting room floor of the first one and placed it in part two.
That said, John and I also experimented a lot with reusing footage from both movies over the course of the last three years in the edit and tried a lot of different versions with flashbacks, flash forwards, etc. We wanted to make sure that we explored the different possibilities to make sure we landed on the way of telling this story that has the biggest emotional impact on the audience.
In the end, we landed at a place that we thought was really elegant and teased the audience with what they might need information-wise or the spirit of the story.
Which moment from Wicked felt most difficult to live up to with Wicked: For Good, and why?
I think capturing the feeling of the Ozdust ballroom in part one and placing that in part two was the biggest challenge. I knew that ultimately, what was going to work about both of these movies was the emotional arc between Elphaba and Glinda. In part one, I needed to feel the friendship being built and that gesture in the ballroom, paying off emotionally. In part two, I wanted to make sure that the same feeling paid off. For example, in the musical number, “For Good,” all the way to the very end. If that friendship and the feelings associated with it didn’t work, the rest of the film wouldn’t matter.
There is also another aspect that we have a shift in the nature of the musical numbers between the two movies. In part one, we get introduced to the world, there are a lot of grand numbers, and we end with “Defying Gravity,” which is such a monumental song. In part two, a lot of the numbers are more introspective and emotional as our characters grapple with the consequences of their choices. As the numbers in the second one are more intimate, the challenge was to make sure that the audience could still connect to them emotionally.
When it comes to editing the performances, how does your process differ when it’s a song from the musical vs a new, original song?
There’s no difference between how I approach the new songs or the original songs from the musical. My priority is to respond emotionally to the footage. Whether something gives me goosebumps, makes me cry, or makes me laugh, I’m picking the performance based on what is the best that was shot on the day and what makes me feel the most or connect with the character the most. I am a firm believer that musical numbers should not feel like music videos. Just because an actor starts to sing, it doesn’t mean that the scene stops; it’s the opposite, you can get so much from actors’ delivery, so it is about treating it like any scene in general and prioritizing the performance.
I use that as my foundation to construct any scene. So again, whether it’s a new song or a song from the Broadway musical, I just use my heart as my compass in building those scenes. That said, of course, there’s a lot of pressure with a new song that no one has ever heard before compared to something that’s canon to the original story. We want to make sure that the song earns its right to be there. Something like “No Place Like Home” takes a lot of experimentation with how Elphaba is convincing the animals into wanting to stay in Oz with this anthem. There was a lot of experimentation about details like what animals are doing what, when they put their bags, when they surround Elphaba, and how to use this particular song to feel like something that’s earned for Elphaba’s story and arc.
How do you feel that this journey changed you for the better as a person and as an editor?
I had no idea going into this project how it might change me, but it also validated things that I already knew when Jon asked me five years ago to work on these two movies. I knew that I was going to work on two amazing films that would mean a lot to the audience. But I had no idea how deep those emotions run. It’s meant a lot to me to work on something so important to an audience and to feel the love and appreciation for the craft. I also knew that I wanted to build an incredible team, that I would need the Avengers of post-production to work with me. What I didn’t realize was how incredible these humans were, not only in making these incredible pieces of art, but also how much I love them and how much I cherish them, and how much they became like a family to me. I learned that I could be a good leader, but also that they were going to inspire me as a leader to want to do better. I also learned I could inspire other people to want to either work in editing or work in post-production.
If you had to pick, what is one lyric or song you would use to describe yourself before working on the project vs after?
For the beginning of the project it’s the lyrics from “Thank Goodness”: But I couldn’t be happier/ Simply couldn’t be happier / Well, not “simply”/ ‘Cause getting your dreams/ It’s strange, but it seems /A little, well, complicated /There’s a kind of a sort of, cost /There’s a couple of things get, lost /There are bridges you cross you didn’t know you crossed /Until you’ve crossed
After the project, it has to be from “For Good”: Like a ship blown from its mooring / By a wind off the sea / Like a seed dropped by a skybird/ In a distant wood /Who can say if I’ve been changed for the better? But / Because I knew you / Because I knew you /I have been changed for good
Which theme resonated the most deeply with you, and why do you think this story will always be relevant for audiences?
I think the theme of friendship and how friendship changes you resonates with me because that is something that I think we can all relate to. It’s a universal theme where people come into our lives and change us in good and bad ways, and they do have a lasting impact on us regardless of whether they are still in our lives. I think that that is a universal and profound theme that deeply touches our characters, but also audience members.
Why do you think we’re always so determined to fit people into a box in terms of good vs bad? What do you think is the most interesting way Wicked shows the truth and harm behind those labels?
I think it’s easier to put somebody in a box – black or white, good or bad, good or evil. It’s just easy to put somebody in one camp or another; it’s easier to look at one’s neighbor in a good or bad light. However, that leaves no room for complexity or nuance. When we work with those simplistic terms, we don’t need to get to know them. They could just be a good or bad person.
Both Elphaba and Glinda are different people than we first see them, and so we have to understand, is somebody truly wicked? Are they born wicked? Or what does it mean to actually be good? Exploration of those ideas and showing the mirror to society where we have to look at the nuances of what people are versus how they are labeled is something that really resonated with the audiences over 20 years ago when Stephen Schwartz and Wendy Holtzman wrote this musical
In Wicked: For Good, we explore those complexities in the edit a lot and how, in reality, they cannot be put into those boxes. For Gilnda, we get to explore the nuances of her character from what shaped her as a child in flashbacks to “The Girl in the Bubble,” where she reflects on her choices. So, we find out that it’s not as easy as we would like it to be to make that choice, good or wicked. For Elphaba, we really see her start to struggle with what it means to be a good person. For example, during “No Good Deed,” she starts to feel like whatever she does turns out to be met with unintended consequences, as well as the fury of Oz, the Wizard, and Morrible.
Once you start to get labeled a certain way, you can then become that person. And just because Glinda is called good doesn’t necessarily mean that she’s earned it. So I love that this film explores the complexity of being labeled and what it means to either fight that labeling or become that thing.
You can buy or rent Wicked: For Good at home now with exclusive bonus features.
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